they're endangered species i see more in the last year than leads jackson head of the epa who is a fantastic administrator. >> rose: you said the national debt problem is a medicare problem. what should we do now about healthcare? >> well, i have my own preferred approach which i have no confidence in. which is the premium support approach that basically is mitt romney. but say if romney loses there's still another approach proposed by people like emanuel and others like getting rid of the two four sursist system. as long as we're paying for quantity and not quality and as long as people are fang end of lynchers that's a moral conversation. it's not the people dying who wants to spend all their dollars on hip replacement in their 90's it's the other people who don't want to have that unpleasant feeling of guilt. for those two issues, those are the two core issues to keep the country solvent, whether you believe in a big government or small government if you can't keep it solvent it doesn't farther. >> the other big piece of that is you've got to get the consumer involved. i have a trick i do